The next day 13 David called for him, and he ate and drank, and David got him drunk. The reader should recall that Hushai the Arkite was the double-agent in 2 Samuel 17 who persuaded Absalom to ignore Ahithophels advice on how to fight David. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. [68] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. 7 When Uriah came to him, David asked about the welfare of Joab and the army and how the battle was going. as Bathsheba was described as having met King David after stepping out of the bath. This illustrates that Ahithophel was probably a young man (Source: This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. As stated above, Saul was in his 70s when he died. So, we should follow Muhammads example and only allow marriage at an age that is appropriate for the time. Among the Jewish commentaries besides the Talmud and the Targums, Rashi also identified Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm. One of Davids faithful soldiers (2 Samuel 23:39. Moreover, according to the Fausset Dictionary, Ahijah the Pelonite was probably a corruption of text. Most, though not all, of the evidence for the age of marriage comes from outside the Bible (i.e., from outside scripture), which some Christians ignore because it is not inspired. You are committing a tu quoque fallacy!, an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponents argument by asserting the opponents failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s)., Thus, when Christians say that Muhammads (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was immoral, and if Muslims were to respond by saying well, the Biblical figures married young girls too, so they are also immoral, that would be a tu quoque fallacy. I have also 100% debunked the claim that Allah is Best Deceiver and I have provided historical facts and grammar facts for kharul Makereen and I have explained more and made it very clear. What did Davids actions cost Bathsheba? Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. Less than eight years old. She was eight when she had her first child. (Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 69b). IT experts since 1997. That Ahithophel had then a married grand-daughter is less probable than that there were in Israel two Eliams.[81]. Other commentators also explain the verse this way. This was also the conclusion of Jewish and Christian commentators. There is disagreement among the experts as to what age that should be. Thus, he went back to his home and hanged himself (2 Samuel 17:23). The fact is that the context fits well with Absaloms revolt and especially with Ahithophels betrayal of David. Furthermore, as stated, David himself was 70 years old at the time of his death. Title: The Toilet of Bathsheba. 23), but of Ahithophels unfaithfulness and the rebellion of Absalom (Chald., the Rabbins, and most interpreters), and indeed not after the outbreak of the rebellion, but shortly before it.. He states that: an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have.[101]. 52, or the Ziphites, Ps. It is not impossible that this Eliam is the same as the preceding., [88] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/e/eliam.html, The same name Eliam also occurs as that of a Gilonite, the son of Ahithophel, and one of Davids thirty warriors (2 Samuel 23:34). [13] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/a/ahithophel.html, He probably hoped to wield a greater sway under the vain prince than he had done under David, against whom it is also possible that he entertained a secret malice on account of his granddaughter Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3, comp. 1 King David was now an old man, 7 Adonijah met with Joab the son of Zeruiah and Abiathar the priest and asked them if they would help him become king. Ellicotts Commentary for English Readers not only questions this interpretation but also the traditional assumption of Davidic authorship: Its date and authorship must be left in the region of mere conjecture. David didnt seduce Bathsheba; he raped her. As for Davids age, it can be estimated based on the account of Solomons ascension to the throne of Israel in 1 Chronicles 29. Son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, and one of Davids heroes ( 2 Samuel 23:34 ). Hebr. And one said, Is not this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite? So David sent messengers and took her, and she came to him, and he lay with her. WebOne day in March 1777, a handsome, 16-year-old Continental Army soldier, Ezra Ross, met Bathsheba while traveling home to Ipswich, Mass. King David Create. There is an obvious contradiction. Also already taken care of. WebEven so, the next king of Israel, Solomon, was later born to David and Bathsheba (12:24). Dr. J. Vernon McGee, in a commentary he gave on Thru the Bible Radio, also identified the betrayal by Ahithophel as the subject of the psalm,[48] and so does Eastons Bible Dictionary (among many others). Both commentaries base their views on the supposition that the psalmist was still in Jerusalem at the time, whereas David found out about the Ahithophels involvement only after he had fled Jerusalem (2 Samuel 15:31). This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. 25:3). 12 Then David told Uriah, Stay here one more day. It is even in Sahih International. [81] https://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/ahithophel.html, [82] https://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/naves-topical-bible/eliam.html, [83] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/eliam.html, [84] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html. Thus, the Talmud sages did not left out the 4 years that went by between Absalom and Davids reconciliation and the beginning of Absaloms revolt. Add an answer. And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. In fact, Ahithophel is mentioned along with Hushai the Arkite in 1 Chronicles 27:33: Ahithophel was the kings counselor. The Targum is, but thou Ahithophel; of whom the words are literally to be understood, and so they are in the Talmud (u); and mystically and typically of Judas[30], Other commentaries, such as those of Matthew Poole,[31] John Phillips,[32] C. H. Spurgeon,[33] Chuck Smith,[34] E.W. The Bible says, And the woman was intelligent and beautiful in appearance (1 Sam. Note that this is the most. Figure 1: Map showing how far Ahithophel would have travelled in the short-lived coup attempt by Absalom. [69] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html. [71] After returning to Jerusalem, Absalom lived there for another 2 years. We can see from the example of Barzillai that people could have lived into their 80s at that time, but this seems to have been the. [] This was also based on the Prophets marriage to Aisha. [100] Perhaps most controversial is his refusal to assign a particular age to serve as a cutoff. Not only was this marriage permitted, it resulted in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon. One night in Jerusalem, King David was walking upon his rooftop when he spotted a beautiful woman bathing nearby (2 Samuel 11:2). [] This was also based on the Prophets marriage to Aisha. The only solution would be to assume that Ahithophel was mentioned in passing and was actually dead (the Chronicler states that Ahithophel was succeeded by Jehoiada). The son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34). WebDavid in His Old Age. When she came to him, he had sex with her. An older king could certainly have a younger counselor, and since early marriages were very common, it is not surprising for a 3040-year-old man to have grandchildren. Subjects > Arts & Entertainment > Movies & Television. A minority of scholars questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel. It should also be borne in mind that David was a prophet, as stated in Acts 2:30: But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.. The record does not make the impression that Ahithophel was an older man than David. [105] This agrees with Biblical standards as well. She was two years old, on our scheme, when David became king. 2 Samuel 11:3 states that Bathsheba was the daughter of Eliam. See here for the sheep ate the Quran polemic: Could you also tell or contact the author of this article telling him that a man having a channel called Islam Critiqued claimed to have refuted or debunked the marriage of Rebekah and Isaac. Based on the example of Barzillai, 80 years seems to have been the upper limit of life in Davids time. Father of Bathsheba, whose first husband was a Hittite, 1 Samuel 11:3 (= 1 Chronicles 3:5 , where Eliam is called Ammiel ). David asked his servants They shall live as long as the Lord of life, the righteous Judge, has appointed, with whom the number of our months is; but he has determined to cut them off by an untimely death in the midst of their days., [58] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533023, A wicked man never lives out half his days; for either he is cut off before he hath lived half the course of nature, or he is cut off before he hath lived a quarter of the course of his desires; either he lives not half so long as he would; and therefore let him die when he will, his death is full of terror, trouble, and confusion, because he dies out of season. In the evening Uriah went out to sleep in the same place, alongside his masters servants, but he did not go down to his own home. bloody and deceitful mendo not come up to. It was most appropriate for the bride, groom and brides guardian to determine the appropriate age for intercourse. (Now she had been purifying herself after her monthly period.) My bad. (LogOut/ Because, Im a Sunni Muslim and Im planning to debunk all anti-islamic claims and anti-islamic arguments. Bible: Child Marriage in Ancient Israelite times Paedophilia? Son of Ahithophrl and father of Bathsheba (https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/e/eliam.html). Why would the author of 2 Samuel have mentioned Eliam in passing on two different occasions and yet have meant them to be two different people and not clarify it, especially since Bathsheba was the daughter of one Eliam, whereas another Eliam was part of Davids elite military unit? [1] https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2020/06/10/the-age-of-marriage-in-the-bible/. [97] Finally, the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature provides perhaps the best explanation (emphasis ours): Ahijah the Pelonite appears in 2 Samuel 23:34 as Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, of which the former is a corruption; Ahijah forming the first part of Ahithophel, annd [sic] Pelonite and Gilonite differing only by and [98]. Married the daughter of Eliam (2 Samuel 11:3), who was the son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34). So, either way, it seems that the name in 1 Chronicles 11:36 was a textual corruption, and thus, unreliable. Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, Then King David said to the whole assembly: My son Solomon, the one whom God has chosen, is young [, Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the, Your argument is based on a selective interpretation of Psalm 55., You are taking Psalm 55:23 too literally!, Maybe people could live even longer than 80 years of age at the time of David! The man said, She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite.. Yes, this is certainly possible, but where is the evidence from the Bible? [88] Many commentators also say this, including Barnes,[89] Trapp,[90] George Haydock,[91] Bullinger,[92] and the Jamiesson-Fausset-Brown Commentary. Yet, as with the attribution of the psalm to Ahithophel, the interpretation of verse 23 was largely unified among the commentators. One competing interpretation may be that the subject of the psalm was Sauls murderous overtures towards David. [74] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5288&t=KJV, [75] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7390&t=KJV, [76] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-chronicles-24.html#15, [79] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque. And my master Joab and my masters troops are camping in the open field. He betrayed David by joining Absaloms revolt. Rather, Ahithophel must be the close friend, since he was Davids counselor. There is no doubt that, initially, many will go into denial-overdrive. Before we begin, let us see what the Jewish scholars said about Bathshebas age when she gave birth to Solomon (dont worry, this is not the main evidence). See my videos here: I agree that Rebekah was not 3 years old. A minority of scholars questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel. Web28 Then King David answered, Call Bathsheba to me. So she came into the king's presence and stood before the king. For example, Willis Beecher states under the entry Ahithophel in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (emphasis ours): It is not strange that men have inferred that the son of Ahithophel was the father of Bathsheba. And David sent and inquired about the woman. Since David died when he was 70 years old, it means that he was 50 years old when Bathsheba (9-11 years old) gave birth to Solomon. Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. [6] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, [7] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel seems to have been the grandfather of Bathsheba., [8] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel was the mainspring of the rebellion. 25. Notice that the sin was in killing Uriah the Hittite and taking his wife! The oldest man in the Bible, after the patriarchs, was Jehoiada, who supposedly died at the age of 130 (2 Chronicles 24:15). If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. The Bible simply doesnt say. Its a relevant to the narrative in the Bible, keep in mind is a directed history. It is not a 100% record but rather 21. In Israel, a married woman without children was almost certainly no more than 15 years old. Accession Number: 14.40.651. [5] Thus, Ahitophel was Bathshebas grandfather. As far as I am aware, this evidence has not been discussed before in Muslim-Christian debates, so it is completely new (though it is not a new discovery). See the same link to the playlist. [68] Similarly, Smiths Bible Dictionary states that he was approximately 32 years old and died around 1023 BCE (emphasis ours): a native of Giloh, was a privy councillor of David, whose wisdom was highly esteemed, though his name had an exactly opposite signification. But what if we can use the Bible to reliably estimate the age of another famous female character in the Bible: But how did the rabbis come to this conclusion if the Bible does not directly provide such information? 1 Chronicle 3:5 states that Bathsheba was the daughter of Ammiel, which scholars have explained was simply the reversed form of Eliam. Psalm 55 is a prayer of David asking God to save him from his enemies. So, if Ahithophel was less than 40 years of age at the time of his death (let us conservatively assume he was 39 years old), and he was Bathshebas grandfather, then how old could Bathsheba have been around this time? Only a minority of scholarly sources questioned this attribution, but the reasons they provided were weak (see note #49). The son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34)., [93] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/2-samuel/11-3.html, Bath-sheba, the daughter of Eliam or Ammiel (1 Chronicles 3:5), one of Davids worthies (2 Samuel 23:34), and son of Ahithophel., [94] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ckb/a/ahithophel.html, According to the Midrash, Ahithophel was Batshebas grandfather., [95] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/p/pelonite.html, [96] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/p/pelonite.html, [97] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/p/pelonite.html, [98] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/p/pelonite.html, [105] http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-An-Nisa/Giving-Back-the-Property-of-th, Tagged as: 2 Samuel, Absalom, Age of consent, Ahithophel, Bathsheba, Bible, Child Marriage, David, Eliam, Psalm 55, par excellence. 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In appearance ( 1 Sam both Eliams without any additional information Bible says, and she came the. Details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account was 70 old... I agree that Rebekah was not 3 years old at the time so she came him! Only was this marriage permitted, it resulted in the short-lived coup attempt by Absalom crucial of! That Bathsheba was described as having met king David answered, Call Bathsheba to me example of Barzillai 80. The short-lived coup attempt by Absalom with Absaloms revolt and especially with Ahithophels betrayal David. Camping in the birth of yet another beloved figure, Solomon 27:33: Ahithophel the. Figure 1: Map showing how far Ahithophel would have travelled in the open field minority scholars... Would allow us to the Fausset Dictionary, Ahijah the Pelonite was probably a corruption of text 55 a! And thus, Ahitophel was Bathshebas grandfather battle was going planning to debunk all anti-islamic and... Below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your Twitter.! Initially, many will go into denial-overdrive is no doubt that, initially, will... Of Davids heroes ( 2 Samuel 23:34 ) and anti-islamic arguments his age. And drank, and David got him drunk less probable than that there were Israel. Bathsheba to me the time of his death Ahithophels betrayal of David asking God to save from. And beautiful in appearance ( 1 Sam of Ammiel, which scholars have was... Troops are camping in the Bible, Call Bathsheba to me Bible: child in... Movies & Television David got him drunk in Israel, a married woman without children was almost certainly more. 7 when Uriah came to him, David himself was 70 years old was years. Your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using Twitter... An icon to log in: You are commenting using your Twitter account details! Her first child was Sauls murderous overtures towards David name in 1 Chronicles:., on our scheme, when David became king Chronicles 11:36 was a textual,.